“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the [OBAMA]nation that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.” (Daniel 12:11)
I have heard it all. I have heard so many people say that Obama is going to usher in Armageddon, that we will have a communistic state, and that his rule will be akin to that of Adolph Hitler. I admit that I was severely disappointed at the election results (though not all that surprised) I am not, however, ready to admit that Obama is the anti-Christ. I know that many people reading this will violently disagree with me, but listen to my rationale.
While I think it is funny to read the scripture from Daniel in light of recent political developments (especially when you say Obamanation instead of abomination and when you consider that 1290 days is only 170 days short of 4 years), I don’t think this is the event to which Daniel was referring. I agree that on a large scale we will see the extinction of “daily sacrifice.” Under his administration, the expansion of welfare programs will further erode the will of people to make the “daily sacrifices” that are necessary for their own self sustenance. You will see more and more people becoming dependent on the government. Taxing the rich to give to the poor is not a new concept though. As you look back into the recent history of the United States you realized that it was only 27 years ago that the top earners paid a federal tax of 70%. Reagan dramatically slashed this rate as it was near and dear to his heart. During his career as an actor he only made four movies per year. This was his cut-off because any more would have catapulted him into a higher tax bracket. Is his refusal to work, not an erosion of desire for work? Where is the motivation for work when the fruits of your labors will be taken from you at the point of a gun or the threat of imprisonment? On the other side of the coin why would people get out and work (ie “daily sacrifice”), when doing so would cause them to lose their “government cheese?” Regardless of the side a person finds themselves on, Obama’s tax plan will take away the motivation for daily sacrifice.
Regarding Armageddon: Let’s look back in history a mere 35 years ago. The event I refer to is the Cuban missile crisis. At this time there was widespread fear and anxiety that the end was IMMINENT. Not that the end was near, but that the end was literally going to happen within the next month. It is easy for younger generations to forget what it was like because we weren’t born yet. I think that we need to keep things in perspective of history. We have been down similar roads before. The challenge is not to panic and think that our lot in life is greater than those who have gone before us. The strongest arguments that the end is not yet imminent are the words of the Brethren. We have been assured that the end is not yet. I trust that.
Regarding the communistic state: One of the pillars of communism is the complete control of industry by the state. I have no real arguments against this happening especially considering the government seizure of large shares of financial giants AIG, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and Lehman Brothers; I just don’t see it happening. Call me naïve but this economy is too large for a complete government take over. I just don’t see it. A stronger argument against the supposed communistic state emerging in this country is religion. In a communistic state religion is banned. There are too many people of religion in this country to allow this to happen. I understand that we see this happening on a small scale with “In God we Trust” and “One Nation Under God.” Let’s remember that these were only added to our currency and Pledge of Allegiance respectively in the 1950s. Before these articles were added our country still survived. This is a far cry from the imprisonment faced by pastors and ministers in the failed Soviet Union. Another thing to consider are the immigrants, most of which are Mexican and most of which are Catholic. As the population of this country increases so does the number of Christians. They may not be the most stalwart but they are the reason, in my opinion, that Prop 8 passed in California. The Catholic Church adamantly supported Prop 8 and I think the Latino vote helped sway it. I don’t see religion going away in this country in the next 4-8 years. I think we will take a large step toward socialism though.
Regarding Obama ruling like Hitler: Please. The extermination of 6 million individuals based on a religious and cultural difference. The only real argument for this happening is Obama’s alleged call for a national police force. I have found no evidence that he actually said this. No one in cyberspace can supply the source of this rumor. For anyone out there under the assumption that this is a new concept, open your eyes. We have had a national police force for 73 years. Hello the FBI. They are a police force that is not bound by the jurisdictional restrains of a city, county, or state.
After reading all this you probably think I voted for Obama. False. I oppose him on almost every level. I think this country is heading for a major financial downturn that will only be exacerbated by the policies of Barack Obama. My argument today is one of hope. Now is the time for people to prepare for an uncertain future not a time to panic. We have certainly seen our fair share of poor presidents in this country, but despite the odds America perseveres. I firmly believe that America is still a beacon of freedom to the world. I think we will survive the reign of Obama. I hope that people don’t over react to Obama and begin to despair. Obama is not likely one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. There is too much good left in this country to focus solely on the bad. Anyways, I am interested in hearing what people think of all this.
23 comments:
Dude, you are nuts! Nah, just kidding. I too was discouraged by the outcome of the election and was really angry even. After a day or so, I calmed down and realized somewhat what you so eloquently wrote. The end is not yet near. The economy going down will likely do to the American people what it did to the Nephites and bring them down to the depths of humility. Hopefully! I know it has caused me to reflect on what I spend money on and what it important. It also brought to mind the counsel to get out of debt. I was planning on paying my student loans off in 7 years but now it is 2-3 simply because of economic uncertainty.
As for Obama, I refuse to take the road that most Bush haters took and ridicule and disparage him at all costs. He is our president and I respect the office and the man in it. If I disagree with him, I will make it known and if I agree with him, I will applaud him. I will never wish him failure though because that means our country becomes weaker, which nobody wants.
Good thoughts Bryce, although I disagree with your assessment of our nearing a communist state. First it was the financial district, now there is a very real chance that the government takes over the auto makers. Next in line will be the airlines, then the energy companies, etc. etc. Every one wants a free handout and a bailout.
Sorry, not everyone (not me). I meant to say that most Americans (not all) want the easy way out, and want the government to support them instead of their own hard labor. They no longer want to exert effort to better themselves.
I am not really pleased, but like you, not too surprised that Obama won. The fact of the matter is that as a nation he is going to be our new president, and I think that we need to buck up and at least give him the respect that the office holds. As hard as that might be.
Your first paragraph cracked me up Bryce! Although we here in California would like to thank Obama for getting out the black vote. The black Obama voters were almost all in support of Prop 8 and that really made the final push in passing. It's always fun to see everyone's take on the elections but like you said, I may not have voted for the man but he will take office soon and I support him as my president.
Stacey
I too agree that we hear way too much Obama Anti-Christ talk. I'm surprised how everyone all forgot how appalling McCain was in the Republican primary. I'm glad that that turd didn't get into office. That would have been a disaster for the Republican party.
Cody, I think it is indisputable that recent government seizure of private industry sets a dangerous precedent soward socialism; however, the large majority of industry in this country are small businesses. I don't see how the government could take over all the small businesses. Of course the gov't could probably find a way. I do not see it happening in the next 4-8 years. I don't have any real facts to back this up I just have a feeling that the US will remain a democratic republic committed, at least in theory, to free market capitalism (in the loose terms).
lehman brothers wasn't given bailout money by the government, they filed chapter 11. and as far as the government taking over the others, thats not true either, to get the bailout out packages, each company had to issue the government preferred stock, which doesn't come with voting rights, thus the government doesn't have any say in how the companies are run. (i just wanted to show what i'm learning in my corporate finance class :) - Jeremy
Jeremy,
Very astute observation. You are right and I was wrong about Lehman brothers. As far as preferred stock goes, there is a reason it is called preferred stock as opposed to common stock. Preferred stock always has preferencein the payment of dividends. In other words, the gov't gets their moola before any of the other Joe-schmoe common stock holders. The dividends are cumulative also which means that if the company has a bad year, well the gov't still gets their set dividends. They should have let these companies fail. All the gov't did was position themselves to profit when these companies do eventually fail. Do you seriously see AIG being a viable PRIVATE (meaning not own by gov't) company in 50 years. Preferred stock is the first step bro.
Bryce
Bryce- you're right in that preferred stock gets dividends before common stock, but these companies don't have to pay dividends until they get their feet back on the ground. in the future, if they are able to turn the companies around and start paying dividends again (which they will have to, if they start making profits) then they must pay the accumulated total to the preffered dividend holders (i.e. the government) before others will be paid dividends. if the companies had issued bonds to the gov't, then the company would have to the dividends on the set date or would be forced to declare bankruptcy. bondholders come first, preferred stock holders second, and common stock (if paid a dividend at all) is last. i think it is a smart move for the government to have some kind of income in the future (think long term)so that not all their income is coming from taxes. Personally i don't like that the government had to bailout these companies, i think the management that drove these companies into the ground should go to jail for a long time, but it had to happen. i think the world would have slipped into a very dark and ugly time for a long time. as far as the bailout package goes, its a freakin joke and they could have come up with something a lot better. regardless though, i think most of the companies (aig included) needed to be bailed out. that's just my opinion though.
You dudes don't know anything. I'm surprised you can talk about this without throwing up in your mouths. Bailouts = bad, and Obama is the incarnate of Legion.
Jeremy,
I agree with you except on the point that the government had to bail these companies out. The management that ran these companies into the ground are now the ones that are the authors of the bailout package. I am referring to Henry Paulson, Chris Dodd and Obama (both of whom recieved large sums of money from fannie mae and freddie mac). Why is Chris dodd the largest recipient of fund from fannie mae and freddie mac in the period from 1989 to 2008? Because he is the freaking Chairman of the Senate Banking committee. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=75586)
Now he is the one writing the bailout for these companies!!! Conflict of intrest, much. These large mortage companies were pressured by democrats to offer risky loans to low income borrowers. Why would the dems want to do this??? Endorsements from community development organizations like ACORN. Because poor folk vote for the man that got them their homes.
People always say these companies are too big to fail, well I say that they are too big to save. You can't honestly think this bailout is going to fix the problem long term. 10 years down the road where do you see these companies. They are already talking about a 2nd bailout. Where does it stop. When the people of this country collectively declare bankrupcty? I would rather see Fannie and Freddie go bankrupt than the US gov't. Like I said though, at least we won't have to pay all this money back to China, that's what we have kids and grandkids for.
ok whatever bryce, you're entitled to your opinions even though your wrong. this is your blog, i wont say anything more about the matter.
I am very impressed with your convincing commentary. I love it that you remind us of gospel-centered provident living principles that, if adhered to, will strengthen us, regardless of where we stand financially today.
Bruiser & Yang Yow,
I like how you just completely dismissed my comment. It was a goof anyways.
Seriously though... Bryce, you're absolutely right about letting those mortgage giants fail. Though you did forget to mention Franklin Raines. He was the lead on Obama's vp search. Of course they're all in cahoots. It's a club where if you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, and all the people at the top are a part of this club. That includes Pres Bush.
The other thing that nobody is mentioning is that the federal reserve has opened it's doors. There has been almost $5Trillion basically liquidated since that point. That first bailout wasn't about bailing anybody out. It was about the Government being able to use however much money they want with ZERO accountability or regulation for that matter.
They were talking about bailing out the big 3 auto makers, and there has been nothing but money money money doled out. We're basically just printing money now.
There will soon be a day of reckoning where we cannot pay the interest on our debts. What will happen then is the 64 dollar question.
Frankly I think that day may have passed, and that's why the bailout was pushed so heavilly by Bush.
One last point... There are certain principles that have built our market and let it thrive, such as free market capitalism. If we change the rules to that, it no longer becomes what we've become so successful with. It becomes something else, and whatever that is will not be as successful as what our founding fathers intended it to be.
Dork
Ok, I read this blog, not quite sure of what to expect but certainly accepting that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think its funny however that most people in this country that are "Anti-Obama" aret judging this man for the wrong reasons. First, his name, the color of his skin because lets face it, he looks different than " the norm." That scares alot of people. I tink most people are afraid to trust his decisions because the really dont think that anyone with a hint of color in their skin is capable of doing anything except playing sports. LOL!!! So not true. I Beg to differ in so many ways. Nothing personal but I really feel if people get off their high horses and stop thinking that they are superior than any other race or creed, this world may be a better place.Give Obama a chance, if he screws up, he wont be the first and he sure as heck wont be the last. However, I do believe that he will go in and do his very best to turn this RACIST COUNTRY around. Truly you cant blame him for the mess we are in. Look at the economy today. He (Obama) didn't create this mess, So give Obama a chance. As far as religion, well thats on a whole different level. How can certain people speak of religion and be racist and judgemental. My bible says "we are all created equal"
however, we all know that that is so not the case. Maybe, just maybe
there is a higher power that is orchestrating this "new change" to get those non believers to see that it doesn't take a rich intelligent "White American" to run this country. I personally was elated that Barack Obama won the election and I am not ashamed to say it. It gives my kids hope and let them know that they can also too become a President of the US one day. They haven't had anyone else that looks like them to say "I am your President." I could go on and on but I wont.As far as welfare , if something is not done soon even you will be on welfare and needing a hadout if your not careful. My mother always would say to me growing up. " There is someone over everyone and God is over us all" So no matter what happens if you are a believer, just know that God is in control and we just should have Faith that there will be a positive turnaround in this country for everyone not just the rich,and one race but for everyone!!!! I am now a believer and I truly will continue to pray for everyone especially for Barack Obama and his family because he has to clean up someone else's mess!!!!!!! Urs
Just to clarify, my assistant Ursala wrote that last comment but had to post it under my name. Anyways, I will comment on it and Jakes post after I get off of work.
bryce
Narcus,
The reason why your comment was browsed over before was b/c you didn't really say anything. you said bailout, bad, Obama, legion. You are welcome to say anything (trust me I like to read the comments) but if you want to be taken seriously you need facts and a compelling arguement. So now to your second post. I have found no evidence that Franklin Raines was ever really vetted or consulted despite the attempts by fox news to portray it as such. That is why I didn't mention him.
Next the Auto makers: Wait for an upcoming blog about my solution to this particular tar baby.
Now to the liquidity. You are right about the Federal Reserve just printing dough. There are two ways to look at all of this new liquidity. The first way, and the correct way in my opinion, is that the new money will further devalue our dollar against foriegn currencies, which will in turn drive the price of commodities up. If anyone is in a position to purchase metals (gold and silver) I think now is a good time to buy, despite the volatility that has come to define the precious metals market.
The second way to look at this new liquidity is in the context the global recession. You would expect to see inflation when you print money but what we are seeing is actually deflation because of decreased demmand. We are actually seeing prices go down. Look at oil.
Now time will be the judge of which of these two scenarios will actually play out but regardless I think we are in for a wild ride.
Ursalla, now you know I love you you, but I disagree with you.
Before I go into my comment about racism, let me say one thing concerning it. I believe that there are racist people in this country. I believe that there are a lot of racist people. I think these people are a very small minority of the population though. Now I hope when you say "racist country" I hope you are not referring strictly to white people. When I speak of racist, I am referring to white, black, hispanic, asian, and any other color you can think of. There are racist white people just as musch as there are racist black people. There are racist hispanics and there are racist asians. Racist does not equal white. That is my disclaimer.
Now as far as judging him, I don't like him, but that has nothing to do with the color of his skin. You said it yourself, he isn't even fully black he is mixed. But I think that is beside the point. I don't like him because of his policies and his promises to the american people. I don't like him because for the first time in recorded history a presidential candidate has promised that when elected he will open the doors of the public treasury and start handing out money. He promised a refundable tax credit!!!! That means that people that don't pay any taxes at all can claim this credit and be "refunded." It boggles my mind that he is willing to do this. I think it is downright theft. Now I don't blame this on Barack Obama I blame it on the democratic party and the republican party for that matter. I think Obama is simply capitalizing on public sentiment that the government owes them something. The idea of something for nothing makes me sick.
Now I feel like there is this perception out there that if a person dare disagree with Obama then that person will be labled a reacist. I hope that is not the case but I feel that it is. Over the next four years it will be interesting to see how this will play out in the media. I personally think that the media will take it easy on Obama because they don't want to be labled as racist. This is sad. I think if the media were as harsh to Obama as they have been to Bush then they will be accused of having racist agendas. Correct me if you think I am wrong but I don't see it playing out any other way.
I hope that anyone out there reading this blog will not add to this sentiment. Allow inteligent people to disagree and dispute Obama without being called racist. I don't like Hillary or Bill anymore than I do Obama. I dislike the Clintons and Obama for the same reason and that reason is not the color of their skin.
I know this was long but I feel that it is a topic that will be at the forefront over the next 4years.
I read all y'all's posts, and let me say this is a really interesting discussion! It's great to see the Carter family is engaged in conversations about life and politics, and this is certainly a very serious topic. Also, you all had me laughing out loud twice. I work in academia where most everyone in the establishment are democrats to liberals, so I hear a lot of their side. And please don't take me the wrong way, but to be honest some of the people I admire most as scholars are staunch democrats. In my mind there's a marked difference between liberals and democrats, and for me the difference is that I can have logical conversations with democrats but not with liberals. But I don't want to open up a new conversation here. Let's talk about Obama. Democrat or liberal, I'm not sure. Like Bryce, I want to say something for giving him a chance even though he is not the man I voted for (Lance is right, McCain wasn't the best choice either; too bad Romney didn't take the ticket - and by the way, FSU football coach Bobby Bowden said he personally liked Romney from this year's earlier choices, fyi). I thought Palin brought with her many conservative values like faith in the family, religious fervor, etc. Anyway, I wish I had had more time to study the issues. The Obama tax plan and all does not sound good at all, and I think he is radical in some of his ideas. Do I think he's an antichrist? No. Don't be silly. I'm not signing him off as a detriment to our country, and I won't unless he proves to be. In conversations with some of my professors, I often wondered why they are so supportive of Obama (and I think one reason is that they were so frustrated by Bush, which again I only know a little bit about the reasoning there and I don't personally think Bush was a bad pres at all). There are some things I believe about Obama. I believe he loves his wife and children, and that he has some kind of faith in a higher power. It is disturbing to me that the church he attended was led by Wright, who appears so radical and anti-American to me. But during the election, I did a research project in which I asked the question "what does Obama really believe about God?". The assignment was to find 15 blogs (only blogs) that addressed the question, and I can tell you that I learned a lot through this. Mostly, I saw that many people argued from the standpoint from their own political base either to show that Obama was radical and anti-religious or that (the democrat's side) his religion really shouldn't be the determining factor. By the way, the marginal beleif that some people have that he is Muslim simply isn't true. He has had many religious influences in his life, but the Trinity church was the most significant (and, again, Wright seems really scarry to me personally; but that's not Obama). Now, the absolutely most interesting blog I found on Obama and faith was an interview someone had with him in 2004 about his religious views. It's significant because it was before this election began, and in reading it I could at least see how Obama himself describes his own religious beliefs. Yeah, yeah, he's a politician, you might be saying; but politics aside, he is a human being. Despite the fact that I don't know the man's heart, I beleive he has the nation's best interests at heart. I just think that he thinks socialism can work, and that's one thing that scares me. Finally, even though after reading his interview I can easily discern that his idea of religion is quite unique and doesn't match my own, the 2004 interview does give me hope to know he does believe in a higher power and thinks about these things. I agree with Bryce that this country is full of religious people, and this is part of the lifeblood of our nation. Now, maybe in reading this post some of you ole Carter's are thinking, "Man, that Tonas has really lost his mind now: hanging out with all that liberal trash." Hold up. I'm a conservative, and I don't make bones about that with peole here. Furthermore, people are people; reasonable people of good will CAN disagree. And sometimes partisanship is healthy. I'm not an Obama supporter myself, but let's pay attention to what he says and does as president and continue to talk about it. These kinds of conversations, I think, can do a lot of good. If any of you are interested in that 2004 interview it is at the following link: http://falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html
And let me add one more thing. I think people's freinds are a big influence on them, and I am bothered by the left-wing freinds of Obama. When I say "Wright is not Obama," I don't mean to say that Obama was not influenced by Wright. It's clear in the 2004 interview that Obama had great admiration for Wright. It does bother me that Obama has such radical freinds, but what I'm saying is we shouldn't necessarily throw Obama under the bus just for that. Let's not overlook the fact that he has many freinds and I'm sure some of them are people we would admire and respect a great deal. I'd be glad to hear any other thoughts about this or anything else on the topic.
I agree you that I think Obama is religious and a good person. I don't think he hates america. I fundamentally disagree with him about the direction this country should take but, that is not directed towards him as a person. I hate his ideology, I don't hate him. I think he is a good american. I just think some people can't make that distinction between a person and their ideology.
This goes back to the racism thing. Just because I hate his ideology doesn't mean I came to that conclusion based on the color of his skin.
I don't agree with the way Obama wants to take this country either regarding the ideas of socialism and higher taxes for the rich. That example of Reagan you cited earlier is surprising, and I didn't know that.
As far as racism, I've heard people talk about the idea that if you oppose Obama you're racist, too. But I don't think that argument stands up against actual facts--like if you point out why you oppose him. It's a cop-out for people to call you racist if you have good reasons to oppose someone's plan. Still, he's the first black president in history and that fact alone has implications and affects people's thinking.
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